Evidence of God's Existence

Jeff and I recently had great conversation with an atheist on Facebook discussing whether or not the atheistic worldview can account for non-material things like the Laws of Logic. This atheist repeatedly asked me for, or at least remarked that there was no evidence for God. My response was that I do not need to show him any evidence and that he simply needed to look around him, because according to Romans Chapter 1, God has made Himself evident to everyone through creation.

I recently shot this video of my beautiful 3 week old daughter, Evie, smiling in her sleep, which she often does, and would like to show several things from it that prove God exists.



1) When I watch this video, my heart overflows with great joy and love for this beautiful little person that God knit together in my wife's womb and blessed us with. Now, I admit that those feelings are completely subjective to me, however, others may watch it and also have feelings of love, joy, or excitement. Someone may even have some twisted evil thoughts of hate or disgust. I can deduce a few things from this:

• Why does a video like this incite such feelings? As a Christian, the answer is easy: God is Love, and I feel love, because I was created in His image! The atheistic worldview, however, has no objective source of love or joy. After all, this worldview claims that we are all simply matter in motion, or bags of biological goo. Everything is material, and nothing non-material exists.
• That being said, are love and joy, or even hate material? Have you ever woke up in the morning and had a hot cup of love? Have you ever tripped on a dirty pile of pride? Again, as a Christian, this does not create any issues for me, because I submit that non-material things, such as love, joy, hate, or even God do indeed exist! The atheistic worldview, however, cannot account for any of these "feelings" without borrowing from the Christian worldview.
• If I knew someone watched this video and had hate in their heart, I would be upset, as would most people. Again, why is this? As a Christian, I can be upset because of something called morality, which was created and is sustained by God, and which I know in my heart of hearts because God has again created me in His image. If we are all just matter in motion though, 1) morals are non-material and cannot be accounted for by the atheistic worldview, and 2) why does it matter if someone feels hate or joy? There is no objective ultimate truth then, and everything is just random, so who's to say whether or not my morals should be the same as yours?

2) Even at only 3 weeks old, some thought in her precious little head made her smile. And, no I do not believe it was just gas, as she smiles all the time, especially when she's sleeping and dreaming, all without passing gas. She is also already smiling at me as a reaction to something I said or did. Here is what I can deduce from this thought:

• There is a chemical reaction going on her brain to make her smile. As a Christian, I can make sense of this because I can say there is more than just a chemical reaction involved. There is also a non-material thought of happiness that triggers the chemical reaction. The atheistic worldview would have to claim that there is only a chemical reaction going on. The only problem with this though, is that all of our minds then only work due to material chemical reactions. How then are we to determine whose chemical reaction is right and whose is wrong? I heard my friend and Christian Apologist, Sye TenBruggencate, give a great illustration in a recent debate. It goes like this: if I were to take a 2 liter of Coke and a 2 liter of Dr. Pepper, shake both of them up and then watch the chemical reaction that would result, how do we determine which chemical reaction is truth, or in this case with my daughter, how do we determine which chemical reaction is happy and which is sad? The point is that you can't! And if non-material things like happiness and sadness can't exist in the atheistic worldview, then why does it even matter, unless you are borrowing from the Christian worldview?

Although these few thoughts I've brought up are not exhaustive, they do show that apart from the Bible and a Christian Worldview, a person, specifically an atheist, cannot account for even some of the simplest emotions we take for granted every day, like love!

A Greek Study on the Deity of Jesus Christ: titus two thirteen

I would like to start a series on the Deity of Jesus Christ, by digging into the original Greek text of selected passages from Scripture. The more I study the original Greek, the more meaning I see hidden by our modern English translations! Ministering specifically to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses has forced me to better understand the text, because they can too easily take verses out of context and twist them to fit their worldviews! So, to start this series off, I'd like to dig into Titus 2:13.

Here it goes! In the King James version, Titus 2:13 reads as follows:

"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; "

Although there is obviously nothing wrong with this version, it is lacking something from that Greek that makes it easy to twist. Interestingly enough, the Joseph Smith Translation, which Mormons use and is based on the KJV and not the Greek, reads the same. The New World Translation, which the Watchtower uses and is also based on the KJV and other obscure translations, and not the Greek, reads as follows:

"while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus,"

You see, the problem with the KJV is that it could be read that God and the Savior Jesus Christ are two separate beings. Christians, Mormons, and Witnesses can all agree that Jesus Christ is the Savior. The thing that separates Christians from the others, is that we believe what Scripture trully reveals about Jesus Christ, that he is the One and Only, True Living God! This verse in the New American Standard reads a little better as follows:

"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,"

The NASB helps a lot by placing the comma after Savior, to point towards Christ Jesus as being the great God and Savior. What I love about the Greek, is that the text becomes so absolutely clear that there is no way to deny what it is saying! First, the word endings, in the Greek, of the words God, Saviour, and Jesus Christ, are all possessive, meaning they are all sharing or possessing the same thing, which in this sentence is the Glory. So, this means that Jesus Christ, the Savior, is sharing the same Glory with God. My first question then becomes, how can they be sharing the same Glory unless the are the same Being?

Second, the way this sentence is constructed in the Greek, it reads weird translated word for word in the English, but leaves no room for error. Word for word, the sentence should read like this:

"looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and Savior our Jesus Christ,"

When read this way in the original text, it absolutely reads that our Jesus Christ is the great God and Savior. Truly amazing!

Mormons use the Joseph Smith Translation to say there are two separate beings or gods, and the Witnesses use the New World Translation to say there are also two separate beings, but God is the only God, and Jesus Christ is Michael the Archangel. But, when confronted with the original text, there is no denying the Triune Deity of of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ!

I hope this has and will be helpful to you in your endeavors to defend the Faith! God Bless you all!

Scene Five

Here is my latest correspondance with my freind Josephine from Atlanta. Enjoy!

Josephine,

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond, but here it is! I would like to respond to just this one email for the time being. I will talk more about this at the end of the email. So, as promised, here is my response to the following:

I've decided that maybe we shoud start with simple, concrete questions concerning this issue.

I somewhat agree with your decision, but will also address this as the very end of the email.

You believe there to be one God as three personages...okay that's cool, but have you ever asked yourself why? Why would God morph into three persons to spread this gospel. Why would He send Himself? Why would he inspire Jesus to say okay I am the son, but not the Father, but I am GOD, but I do my Father's will and not mine? WHY? What purpose does this serve?

This response has been one of my biggest struggles in corresponding with you. You keep asking me to think of the existence of God in “human” terms and logic. I absolutely will not do that! I have shown and proved to you with several verses in the Bible why God is one Being with three distinct Personages, and instead of once responding to any of these verses, you have repeatedly asked me to try to explain it in my own logic. And again, I have never once said God morphs Himself…………that is Modalism! Also, I refuse to sit here and question God’s purpose that has clearly been displayed throughout Scripture. Romans 9: 20 says:

“Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?”

Although this verse in context is specifically speaking about those God has chosen to save and those He has not, you get the point. Why would we question God’s purposes, who is all-knowingly in control of everything? Why were you born? Why has God allowed you to come in contact with me? Why would His Word clearly demonstrate that He is one Being and three distinct Personages? What purpose does that serve? Are you questioning God’s Word? This is my point, every point I make, I make from the objective Truth, the Word of God. I presuppose the Bible as the foundation for all truth. You do not. Every point you make is from your own subjective point of view. You presuppose your own thoughts, feelings, and emotions as the foundation of truth. I test claims by Scripture. You test claims by an appeal to your emotions. Why did God choose to reveal Himself through Scripture like He has, I cannot answer that, but I can assuredly say that He has, and that is truth.

WHY would he allow PROPHETS TO WRITE THAT THEY SAW TWO PERSONAGES SIDE BY SIDE?

This my friend, is an excellent question! Why would He? My response, is that He did NOT! My next question would be, which of the ten different First Vision Accounts are you referring to? Is it the very account from 1927 when a spirit came to Joseph and then turned into a toad (see http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/1827-account.html ) ? Or is it the one from 1834 when an angel appeared to Joseph (see http://www.irr.org/mit/first-vision/1834-35-account.html )? Or maybe you are referring to the “official” First Vision Account, where Joseph saw the Father and the Son together. Have you ever sincerely looked into this? Please do! Now, despite the several varying accounts, Exodus 33:20 says:

“And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.”

Obviously it is physically possible to see Christ if He chose to reveal himself, but, according to this verse, how could Joseph have seen the Father and lived? Again, I believe this to be further proof that Joseph’s account was not true!

Why would He yell from heaven? Does this matter not confuse you AND everyone else?

I believe you are referring to Matthew 3:16-17 which says:

“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

First, let me say that I do not believe the Father had to yell. Secondly, this is not at all confusing. I know many Christians who have no problem understanding this. The reason it is not confusing, is because it perfectly coincides with what Christians believe and what the Bible teaches. This is a perfect display of the Triune God! The Father speaking from Heaven, the Son being Baptized, and the Holy Spirit descending as a Dove. One Being, three distinct Personages. In fact, the only people I know that find this confusing are those who deny a Triune God. You cannot make sense of it!

WHY WOULD HE SEND PROPHETS BEFORE and AFTER CHRIST? WHY? WHAT do prophets serve as their purpose?

Once again, great question! My response would be that we no longer need a prophet. There were prophets before Christ because that is how God chose to reveal Himself to His people then. Christ coming to earth ended the Old Covenant. We now have God’s Word as His way of revealing Himself to us. 1 Timothy 2:5 says:

“For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”

We no longer need a prophet, because Christ is the only mediator between us and God. This verse cannot be any clearer on this issue!

IF the spirit is a personage HOW DOES IT ENTER EACH OF US? WHY CALL IT A SPIRIT IF IT IS A PERSONAGE? WHY?

Again, you are thinking in “human” terms. The Spirit is a Personage, but still a spirit, just as the Father has a spirit body. How does He enter all of us? Again, I have no idea, but this is how He has been revealed to us. How can God be all-knowing? I do not know that either, but probably the same way he can enter us all if He so chooses. I don’t believe you would disagree that God is all-knowing, would you?

Why allow Jesus to pray and teach about A FATHER when HE IS ANOTHER FORM OF THE FATHER? WHY? WHY DISTINGUSH? YOU SEE WHERE THIS IS GOING? NO WHERE!


I absolutely do see where this is going; as another attack on Modalism! Attack it all you want! Jesus is not another form of the Father. I never said He was. Separate Personage, yes; different form, no!

You say that when we are baptized that we do not join a church...WRONG!Maybe YOUR church, but this act is what qualifies one to become a MEMBER…IT IS A MUST….maybe you just never attended these faiths. Baptist believe they are right, Methodist sprinkle and believe they are right, Catholics believe they are right and also sprinkle, some baptize children and believe THEY MUST OR WILL GO TO HELL…they feel they are right….the list goes on…Also, how does an infant place faith in Christ when they don’t even know who they are or their name? WHY IS THIS ACT NECESSARY??? IT IS EITHER ALL OR NOTHING!! So are you saying Catholics and Methodist are not Christian? IF not, HOW CAN THE BODY OF CHRIST DIFFER ON BASIC CORE DOCTRINE…again don’t dodge the inevitable.

You are not accurately quoting what I said about Baptism. Baptism is nothing more than an act we are commanded to do AFTER placing our faith in Christ, as an outward expression to the world saying that we have spiritually died and have been raised to life with Christ. It is an image of His death and resurrection. We are also commanded to take communion to remember Christ’s death for our sins. These two acts do not qualify us for nor save us. They are done after salvation has occurred. Now, if there are groups that claim to be Christians, but practice baptism for salvation, then they are not true Christians, because they preach and practice a false Gospel! Yes, baptism is definitely a core doctrine, and if it is practiced for salvation, then it is not Christian or from the Bible! And yes, different true Christian denominations do differ on how to do it, but they also agree on the Gospel, as faith in Christ alone for salvation, and baptism as an ordinance. Does this clarify? And I’m not dodging anything at all.

YOU can't say CHRISTAINS without acknowledging that each and every sect accept a different doctrine...WHO IS THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION....WE ARE? GOD WANTS THE SAME CONSISTENT DOCTRINE...PERIOD! THIS IS ALL THE MORE REASON WHY HE WOULD SEND A PROPHET...to clarify with AUTHORITY!!! IF not, AUTHORTY would not have been such an issue during John's Baptism issues....read...you will see that they did not even receive the Holy Ghost and infact did not even know what that WAS!! WOW!! Talk about confusing the doctrine of God! BELIEVE ME, THERE IS A DIVINE PURPOSE FOR EVERYTHING AND the trinitarian doctrine seems to serve no purpose....what do you gain from believing it when you have to justify every verse that states otherwise?

Well, let me first say that, yes there are different denominations of the true Christian church, and yes there are several heretical sects that claim to be Christian. The point that you are missing here, is that the denominations that are truly Christian, are those that all agree on the Gospel of the Bible, which I will state one more time for clarity: That we as sinners must put our faith alone in Jesus Christ, that He is the True and living God, that he died, was buried, and rose again on the third day, and that we cannot do anything to be saved. Any Gospel different form this is a false one (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)!

What amazes me, is that generally speaking, Mormons try to say that the LDS Church is the only true church because you are all the same, and all believe the same thing. Is this not what you are saying? The problem with this statement, is that it is completely false! There are over 200 different sects of Mormonism! 200! Do you mean to tell me that all 200 plus all believe the exact same thing? It is impossible, or there wouldn’t be that many. What about the polygamous sects in Utah that still practice the original Mormonism of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; that say you must be polygamous to become a god one day. You don’t believe that do you? You see, again, only Scripture can be a true test of Christ’s church!

I’m not really sure what baptism issues and event regarding the Holy Ghost that you are referring to. If you elaborate, I will give you a response.

Yes, I agree that there is a Divine purpose for everything, but I’m not sure how that disproves a Triune God. You also hit the nail right on the head. You’re right in saying that I have to justify everything with Scripture! Amen! That is the whole point I am getting at. Do you see it? I will not use any subjective logic to try and defend my beliefs. Sola Scriptura!

Again, I do not believe anything was CREATED IT WAS ORGANIZED BECAUSE IT HAS EXISTED FROm THE BEGINNING AND WILL HAVE NO END....MAN TRANSATED "CREATE" IN THE BIBLE...it is not original....if something has no end how can it have a beginning....its eternal right? therefore how is it created at all?

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure where you get this doctrine from, unless it’s something from Joseph. The only thing not created is God, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the only thing that has existed eternally. Everything else has been created. I believe you are referring to the word “created” in Genesis 1:1, which states:

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Now, I believe you are referring to Joseph Smith claiming that the word “created” does not actually mean create, and that somehow he got the Council of the Gods out of this verse. That is not at all correct. Joseph had no authority, training, or wisdom in translating any language, let alone Hebrew. The Hebrew word here for “created” is, “bara,” which literally means, “to create, shape, form.” There is no other way to translate it. Also, if “bara” means something different, are you then claiming that the Jews, after all these years, have erroneously also believed that God created the heavens and the earth? I don’t think you really believe that.

I know we covered this before, but in reference to Christ, the image of the invisible God, Colossians 1:16 says:

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:”

After reading this verse, how can you say that everything existing eternally? Christ clearly created everything!

Now, I mentioned that I would talk about your decision to, “start with simple, more concrete questions,” more at the end. I do agree that maybe we should just tackle one topic, or even verse at a time. Part of my frustration in corresponding with you, and I don’t say this at all to be offending, is that I have spent a minimum of six hours on each email I have sent you, and I do not feel that you are putting the same time and diligence in responding to me. I have responding to every one of your emails point by point, with very specific and elaborate answers, and for the most part, you have responded by either cutting and pasting numerous verses or quotes, by sending my links to videos, by making up silly stories, or by offering up your subjective opinion. I have asked you very pointedly on several occasions, very specific questions to verses, that you have not given me responses for. If you truly want to justify your beliefs as the honest truth, then you sincerely need to dig down deep and validate what you are saying with the objective Word of Truth! I have another six or seven emails from you that will take me many hours to respond to. And I am all for it if need be, however, this is what I propose to you: Let’s take one verse(s) at a time. Please, please, explain to me how you can justify John chapter one with what you believe. Like I mentioned before, I have asked many Mormons to rationalize this verse with the teachings of Mormonism, and I have never received any answer at all. I sincerely implore you to read and provide an explanation to me for the following verses from John 1:1-16:

“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b] 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” 16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.”

Please answer this: If Jesus is not God, then why does this say He is? If everything has always eternally existed, then why was Christ at, “the beginning?” If Christ and John have always existed spiritually as brothers, then how did Christ exist before him? This is where I will leave it. My hope and prayer is that you will earnestly look into this. I look forward to receiving your reply. God bless you!


In Christ,

Luke

Scene Three

Here is the latest addition to Latter Day Saints Investigation: atlanta. I know these are long, but they are intense, and in depth! Enjoy!

Josephine, I have put together a response to the following email:

In regards to Joe, I find it hard to believe He would state anything other than separate being that he saw two separate beings...maybe someone else wrote it and said it was Joe. One thing about discourses, articles, etc. is that they were written by people who listened to them and then wrote it. This is why the ONLY official doctrine we use are Bible, BOM, DC, PEARL....all other sources are opinions and usually do not contain viable sources....

Here is my response:

When I mentioned that Joseph originally believed in a Triune God, I wasn’t referring to any of the First Vision accounts. Also, one issue that a really have a problem with as a Christian, is that Joseph, over time, changed his mind on the Deity of God, as I will show you. So, to be fair to you as a Mormon, what I am about to show you is all from LDS publications. Nothing is from “Anti-Mormon” publications. As I have asked of you before, please take the time to earnestly look into what I am presenting to you, for yourself. Please don’t just send me something someone else put together as an answer. So, following are several verses and quotes that show Joseph Smith, Jr. at some point in his life taught that there is only one Triune God, not the plurality of gods as he later taught.

1) “For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fulness of his own time.” 2 Nephi 11:7

This verse teaches that Christ is God and that there would be no creation without Him. Very interesting considering that the LDS church does NOT teach that Christ is God and that creation exists because of Him (the official stance is that Christ created “all other things”).

2) “And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;” 2 Nephi 26:12

The LDS church does NOT teach that Christ is the Eternal God.

3) “And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.” 2 Nephi 31:21

This verse to me, again, sounds like a very good definition of a Triune God; “of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God.” I know you do not believe this, do you?

4) “And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth—“ Mosiah 7:27

“Christ was the God,” and, “God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood.” Do you believe this? I know the LDS Church doesn’t teach it.

5) “AND now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son— The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.” Mosiah 15:1-4

Although I do NOT agree that Christ is the, “Eternal Father,” I certainly agree that they are, “one God.” I again ask you, do you? The Book of Mormon says that they are, and so does the Bible (John 1:1, John 8:24, 28, 58)!

6) “Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.” Mosiah 16:15

Again, although I do NOT agree that Christ is the, “Eternal Father,” I don’t believe that you do either.

7) “Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;” Alma 11:38-39

Again, I feel like I am starting to sound like a broken record, as the Bible does not teach that Christ is the, “Eternal Father,” but it does certainly teach that as God, He, “is the beginning and the end, the first and the last” (Revelation 22:13).

8) “Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.” Alma 11:44

This verse blows my mind as a Christian, because it again gives a perfect, and very clear definition of the Triune God of the Bible; “of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God.” The LDS Church does not teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute One God, and they don’t teach that He is Eternal either! Also, as a side note, I find it interesting that is some passages the Book of Mormon says The Holy Spirit, and some passages say The Holy Ghost. It’s not important to this discussion, just something I noticed and thought was strange.

9) “And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one.” 3 Nephi 11:27

Again, “the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one,” sounds to me like a Triune God.

10) “And thus will the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one.” 3 Nephi 11:36

Please see that, “the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one,” is a perfect description of the Triune God of the Bible. Please note that every example I have given you so far have been from the Book of Mormon, which was “translated” by Joseph Smith, Jr. and the published in 1830. I believe I have given you ample examples from your own book, which in 1841, Joseph said was, “the most correct of any book on earth” (History of the Church, Volume 4, Page 461), that prove early Mormonism and Joseph Smith, Jr. taught the existence of the Triune God of the Bible. I’m sure you will want to say that in many of the passages I have just shown you, that all three personages (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) are one, “in purpose.” However, as I have said to you before in my previous email, the text does not say that, in either the Bible or the Book of Mormon. Therefore, if you want to say that is the truth, then you have to add a word to the text, even to the “most correct of any book,” to make it fit your beliefs. Does this sit right with you?

11) “The representation of the god-head – three, yet in one is curiously drawn to give simply, though impressively, the writer’s views of that exalted personage.” Oliver Cowdery

Please note that this quote is taken from a letter Oliver Cowdery wrote to William Frye, dated December 25, 1835. It is describing the scroll of the Book of Joseph, which was never translated. This quote is again a perfect definition of the Triune God of the Bible. Now, I understand that this quote did not come directly from Joseph’s mouth, however, please hear me out on this. Oliver Cowdery was Joseph’s right hand man. He was the scribe that wrote down all the translations for Joseph from the Book of Abraham. Also, this letter was published in the December 1835 issues of both the Latter Day Saints’ Messenger and Advocate. Joseph would have had to approve all content himself that was to be published in those LDS publications. Therefore, I find it very hard to believe that Joseph would have allowed anything to be published coming from his right hand man that he did not authorize or teach. So, even in December 1835, it appears that Joseph still taught and believed in the Triune God of the Bible and what he “translated” as the Book of Mormon. I will now show you, however, that even earlier that year, he started to change his beliefs and teachings about who God is.

12) “We shall, in this lecture speak of the Godhead: we mean the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things--by whom all things were created and made, that are created and made, whether visible or invisible: whether in heaven, on earth, or in earth, under the earth, or throughout the immensity of space--They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fulness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made, or fashioned like unto man, or being in the form or likeness of man, or, rather, man was formed after his likeness, and in his image;--he is also the express image and likeness of the personage of the Father: possessing all the fulness of the Father, or, the same fulness with the Father; being begotten of him………And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made:” Joseph Smith, 1835 D&C, Lectures of Faith, Pages 52-53

“Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead?”
“A. Two: the Father and the Son.”
Joseph Smith, Lectures of Faith, 1835 D&C, Page 55

“Q. Do the Father and Son possess the same mind?”
“A. They do.”
“Q. What is this mind?”
“A. The Holy Spirit.”
Joseph Smith, Lectures of Faith, 1835 D&C, Page 57

“Q. Do the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit constitute the Godhead?”
“A. They do.”
Joseph Smith, Lectures of Faith, 1835 D&C, Page 58

Now, I could say a lot about what I have just shown you, but I will try to keep it the topic at hand: the Deity of God. Although I am not sure of the exact dates when Joseph said all these quotes, I do know from the 1835 D&C, that they were said at some point during that year, the same year the quote about the Book of Joseph was printed, most likely even earlier than December 25, 1835. Here are my major issues with what Joseph began to teach sometime in 1835:
1. From the Book of Mormon, and from the Oliver Cowdery quote, I have shown you how the Triune God of the Bible (One Being, Three Personages) was taught by Joseph Smith, Jr. at least until some point during 1835. But I have also shown you that in the year 1835 he, Joseph Smith, Jr., began to teach that the Godhead only consisted of Two Personages, The Father and The Son, and that They possess the same mind, that being The Holy Spirit. If Joseph would have stuck to Scripture, or even his “translated” Book of Mormon, he probably would have been okay. Unfortunately, you can see here where he starts to add his own doctrine to Scripture. The Holy Spirit is definitely referred to as a “person” in Scripture (Mark 13:11, John 14:26, Acts 1:16, Acts 9:31, Acts 13:2, Acts 20:28, 2 Timothy 1:14, Hebrews 3:7). Here you can see that Joseph begins to refer to Him as a “mind,” which is nowhere found in Scripture, nor in the Book of Mormon.
2. I know that Mormonism does NOT teach that the Godhead created all things, EVEN in Heaven. Doesn’t Mormonism teach that things in Heaven (even our spirits in the pre-existence, including Jesus and Satan) were not created by the Godhead “of this earth?”
3. I also know that Mormonism does not teach that The Father is, “a personage of spirit,” but of, “flesh and bones, as tangible as man’s” (D&C 130:22).

13) “I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for the express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.” Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Volume 6, page 474, 1844

You will notice here, that in 1844, Joseph Smith, Jr. is teaching a different doctrine on the Deity of God. I believe that I have show you that Joseph did NOT, “always and in all congregations,” teach on the, “plurality of Gods.” Also, if you are to subtract 15 years from 1844, you get the year 1829; and I have definitely shown you that neither Joseph, nor even the Book of Mormon, taught on the, “plurality of Gods” back that far.

14) “John was one of the men, and apostles declare they were made kings and priests under God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It reads just so in the Revelation. Hence, the doctrine of a plurity of Gods is as prominent in the Bible as any other doctrines. It is all over the interface of the Bible. It stands beyond the power of controversy. A way-faring man, though a fool, need not err therein. Paul says there are Gods many and Lords many. I want to set it forth in a plain and simple manner; but to us there is but one God—that is pertaining to us; and he is in all and through all.”
Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Volume 6, page 474, 1844

Now, without getting too far off tract, I want to briefly touch on this. The “Plurality of Gods” Doctrine is NOT at all, “prominent in the Bible,” and it certainly does NOT stand, “beyond the power of controversy.” In fact, the only Scriptural reference that Josephs mentions, 1 Corinthians 8:5, is taken so far out of context, that if further explored, destroys this entire doctrine. 1 Corinthians 8:5 reads, “For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,).”
1. First, the verse correctly reads, “gods many, and lords many,” not, “Gods many, and Lords many.”
2. The context of this verse is Paul talking about the things that were being offered as sacrifices to the many false gods of the Corinthians.
3. If you read verses 4 and 6 of 1 Corinthians 8, you will clearly see that Paul says there is only ONE True God.

15) “Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God! I say that is a strange God anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. “Father, I pray not for the world, but I pray for them which thou hast given me.” ‘Holy Father, keep through Thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one as we are.” All are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster.”
Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Volume 6, page 476, 1844

What’s amazing to me, is that in only 14 years (1830-1844), Joseph Smith, Jr. went from teaching a Triune God to teaching a plurality of gods, and sarcastically making jokes about this same God he once believed in.

Ok, so I know that this has been really long, but I wanted to show you everything I could, from strictly LDS publications, that Joseph Smith, Jr., did at one point believe in and teach the Triune God of the Bible. What really bothers me as a Christian, from what I have shown you, is that either Joseph Smith, Jr. changed his mind, or God changed his Deity. I say Scripture proves it was Joseph Smith, Jr. My fear is that to make your beliefs work, you have to say that it was God. I again, absolutely sincerely, ask you to research for yourself the information I have just provided for you. I have spent at least another six hours preparing this, again, not just to prove you wrong, but to show you that what you believe to be the truth, is actually misguided. I want you to see the truth through Scripture. I want you to earnestly try and justify the differences between Scripture and the teachings of Joseph Smith. Jr. As always, please feel free to call me at anytime to discuss any of this. I am praying for you!

In the Name of Jesus Christ,


Luke Pierson

The Purpose of My Blog

No, this is not me riding in the taxi, but it could be my younger brother. I'd have to see his face to know for sure! For those of you who may not know who I am, my name is Luke Pierson and I am Vice President of Apologia Christian Ministries, based out of Chandler, AZ. I have entitled this blog "Ministry Bear" because I am often referred to, and even introduced occasionally by the President of Apologia, Jeff Durbin, as the "Ministry Bear." I'm not really sure why, but it could be because at times I may resemble a big scary grizzly bear, or other times a big snugly teddy bear...........I'll let you make the call!

I really have one purpose in doing this blog, and that is to "chronicle" daily events in my life, and how I try to respond to them in a Christlike manner. I want this to be a little more personal and "in-depth" that the official Apologia Blog. As you can see, I have hidden all comments, and there is a very good reason for that, which I will explain later. However, if you want to ask me anything about my blog, please feel free to email me at luke@defendthefaith.org.

I have been dialoguing with a young Mormon lady from Atlanta the past week or so, and will soon be blogging about that. I hope and pray that my blog can be a blessing and encouragement to you!

Enjoy!

"Is Mormonism Christian?" Event Pictures

For those of you who were unable to attend this event, here is a picture of Jeff and I!